Podcast: Gemstone Jerk Scam - Fraud Prevention

By AARP   Published June 08, 2018

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When Elaine makes a connection with a man on a dating site, she believes this could be something really special. Over time, the online relationship turns romantic. So when Elaine’s new

boyfriend claims to be overseas on business and needs money, she’s willing to help. In the end, the man disappears — but only after Elaine had sent him thousands of dollars in cash. Online

romance scams are the No. 1 scam for loss money reported. It happens every day, and con artists are only getting more clever on how to pull at your heartstrings.

TIPS:  Use a dating site that verifies its members. Don’t post straight on photographs of yourself on Facebook or LinkedIn or other social media sites.  These pictures can easily be

transferred, manipulated and posted on passports, ID cards, or on dating sites.  Don’t pick up the phone if you don’t recognize the phone number and don’t click on any unfamiliar links.   

[00:00:01] HOST: Comingup on this episode of AARP's Perfect Scam.

[00:00:03] This guylooks very nice and whatever he told me, I feel very bad for him and he's a businessmanand okay.

[00:00:11] HOST: It'san all too common scenario in this age of online love and dating. What seemslike the perfect match at first turns out to be anything but that, but we'renot just talking

about someone who doesn't live up to expectations. These are conartists who know every trick in the book when it comes to attracting attention,making a connection, and eventually, walking

away with the victim's money. Andyou might be surprised to learn how easy it is to fall into the trap. For theAARP's Perfect Scam, I'm your host, Will Johnson and I'd like to introduce

onceagain, my cohost and AARP's Fraud Watch Network Ambassador, Frank Abagnale.Frank, welcome back.

[00:00:43] FrankAbagnale: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

[00:00:45] HOST: Sohere we are again this week we are talking about dating scams, romance scamsand big business, right?

[00:00:50] FrankAbagnale: Absolutely.

[00:00:52] HOST: Thisis one that makes sense in terms of being able to get to somebody through theirheart. It seems like a low-hanging fruit almost for a scam artist.

[00:01:02] FrankAbagnale: It's true and it also, it's amazing to me how much money some peoplehave given to these scam artists, even though their family members are tellingthem it's a scam

and trying to tell them not to be involved in therelationship. They just continue to send money, over and over again.

[00:01:19] HOST: It'seasy to almost feel like these people are so gullible but you have to putyourselves in their shoes to some extent as well.

[00:01:26] FrankAbagnale: Absolutely.

[00:01:27] HOST:Alright, so on this episode we will introduce you to Elaine. After ending arelationship, she was interested in meeting someone, someone new. So, she wenton a dating site and

before too long ran across someone.

(MUSIC SEGUE)

[00:01:40] Elaine: Heput down a long, you know, a description of who he is and what he is and thathe lost his wife about so many years ago and he had this son who he lost in, hewas in the

military and he, he lost his son in Afghanistan, and he's alone andhe, he's looking for, you know, somebody. Anyway, so he started connecting withme and the communication went on and on

without me knowing who he is.

[00:02:16] HOST: WillJohnson: And so it's fair to say you connected with somebody on the site andinitially you liked him, you enjoyed having a conv--, messages back and forth?

[00:02:25] Elaine: Ienjoyed the conversation and he, he started communicating with me under a nameand then he also put in a, an email address where I could get to talking to himin more

detail.

[00:02:44] HOST: Anddid you, at any point early on did you at all question this or did it all seempretty legitimate to you?

[00:02:50] Elaine: Ididn't question, because I trusted him. He told me what he is. He was supposedlya marine engineer other BS or whatever he came, come up with.

[00:03:03] HOST: Did heplay it up on the romance side at all as well?

[00:03:05] Elaine: Ohyes. He told me, and he, he put all these wonderful talk, you know sweet talkto, to a person who was ready to absorb all that. So he said that he has abeautiful rose

garden and he would like to send me some roses, what is myfavorite color? So I gave him a color. And then one day in the evening, and Igave him my address of course, how else are they able

to deliver flowers to me?So, one evening at about 8 o'clock in the evening, the doorbell rings, andthere is an elderly gentleman, person, I don't know if he's a gentleman if he'sconnected

with that guy, he's not a gentleman. He holds in his hand a beautifulcolorful balloon, Happy Birthday or whatever it was, and he had a beautifulvase with a gorgeous big bouquet of flowers. I

said, "Oh my God, it's sobeautiful, and oh it's so beautiful that he sends me flowers," but thatwas in the very beginning.

(MUSIC SEGUE)

[00:04:33] HOST: So hereally, I mean this person like you said, they're really good at what they doand he went through a lot of steps, including sending you something at yourhouse.

[00:04:42] Elaine: Hemade it so believable. So anyway, he was, he was telling me one day that he hasto go overseas and he has to, he's in contact with to buy minerals overseas andhe needs to

go and he's packing right away because he has a fantastic deal, andhe is leaving within a few hours because he has to catch the deal.

[00:05:17] HOST: Let meask you, two questions: how long was, had you been messaging with him before hegave you this story and ...

[00:05:25] Elaine: Itwas, it went on for maybe two weeks or thereabout and you know I said, okay, thisguy looks very nice and whatever he told me, I feel very bad for him and he's

abusinessman and okay.

[00:05:42] HOST: Had hementioned his business overseas before?

[00:05:45] Elaine: Wellthat's what he said to me, that he was mine, he was buying minerals fromdifferent mines in, in Ghana.

[00:05:57] HOST: Okay.

[00:05:58] Elaine: Sowhen he gets there, he send me this message and he tells me that they will,they have a law they will not accept his travelers’ checks, whatever he said,American Express

or whatever. So what he said is that he, he needs to have somemoney and it should have given me the red flag right at that moment, but Ididn't, I didn't catch it. So, stupid me, I, and he

said, "You have to rundown right away because I need the money, otherwise I can't go to the mines andthat could be in anyplace in, in the country."

[00:06:48] HOST: Howmuch money are we talking? Did he mention that at this point?

[00:06:52] Elaine: Thetotal of that was maybe around $3,000.

[00:06:57] HOST: Will Johnson:And did you send it all at once? So he told you to...

[00:06:59] Elaine: No,I did not send it all at once. And then me made all kinds of other excuses thathe needed, that he has to pay the hotel where he's staying, he cannot anywhere.That he

has to prove to the mines that he has the money, and all that stuff.And he said, "I need," I don't know, another $1000 or whatever. And Isaid, "Well, okay." He said, "Run down immediately to

Walmart.And while I am standing at the counter at Walmart, the people there get a callfrom some authority from the transmission authority who cashes these payments.She says, "I am not

letting you, you know, to let this money transactiongo through because it's a scam and you will get a refund on this money."

[00:08:01] HOST: That'samazing. So she...

[00:08:02] Elaine: Theyknew already that this is a scam and it should not be handed out. And then shesaid, "I am putting a block on this," and she's sending the moneyback to, to the Walmart

people and I got the credit for the money. Anyway, hesent the message to me when I got home, and he said that, you know, he made upother stories. Later on, what he said was, "Don't worry, I

am going tosend, give you back all the money you sent to me because I am not even going,when I come back to the, to the states, I am not even going to stop at my city.I am flying straight to

you to Tucson."

[00:08:58] HOST: Atthis point, Elaine's made multiple trips to Walmart and sent a lot of money tothis guy. And so she finally decides to do some checking around on him.

[00:09:07] Elaine: Igot the background check from different companies. Well, first of all they hadaddresses all over the place and then the address that he gave me was a housethat was for

sale. It was not a house where anybody lived. So it was phony,every step of the way was phony.

[00:09:31] HOST: Youknow, this kind of took your heart for a ride, too, I imagine. Talk about that,emotionally.

[00:09:35] Elaine:Well, I was emotional, emotionally vulnerable. And I, it kind of you know feltgood that there was somebody who, without knowing me, wants to have, you knowtalk to me nice

and sweet talk and whatever.

[00:09:58] HOST: Andsend you a rose from his garden, as a matter of fact.

[00:10:00] Elaine: Yes.

[00:10:02] HOST: Youknow, this kind of thing, first of all I want to say, we really think you'rebrave for talking about this, because there's a lot of people who, you know,it's not easy when

you've been scammed or you feel like you're the victim ofsomething, that you've done something wrong. Has that been hard for you? Sothank you, first of all, and then is it hard to talk

about here today or haveyou gotten used to telling the story? And do you talk about it to others?

[00:10:23] Elaine: Ihave no problem telling people. I will tell anybody.

[00:10:28] HOST: Youknow, I'm reading, I have some notes about your story and one thing you toldsomebody here before is, if you’re smart, you have to disconnect from all ofthis. I think

that's a...

[00:10:38] Elaine:Yeah, you should disconnect and I, it, it is also very important and it’simportant for me what I learned. First of all, you have to speak to the person.You have to speak

and hear the conversation from a live person. You can tell alot from speaking to someone and to hear his reactions or her reactions orwhatever because there are women scammers too.

[00:11:10] HOST: I hopeyou find somebody who will send you a legitimate real rose from their rosegarden.

[00:11:15] Elaine:(laugh). Well I don't know. I don't need rose garden, I need a real person.

[00:11:21] HOST: Yeah,well, that's true, right, right, not just the rose. I have a title for thisepisode you might like.

[00:11:26] Elaine: Ohyeah? Well, look it's been...

[00:11:27] HOST:Gemstone jerk.

[00:11:29] Elaine:(chuckle)

(MUSIC SEGUE)

[00:11:34] HOST: So Frank,I feel like if I'm on a dating site or if anyone's on a dating site andminerals or mines are mentioned, I'm going to stay away from it. Stay away fromthat person.

[00:11:43] Frank Abagnale:Yeah, you know it's just amazing to me the romance scams, they've been going onfor generations. Some romance scams are somebody trying to rip you off for asmall

amount of money. Some are very wealthy women who have been conned out ofmillions and millions of dollars in romance scams. First of all, you know, you,you never want to send someone money

that you never actually even met.

[00:12:07] HOST: Bottomline, that, that's the first thing.

[00:12:08] FrankAbagnale: That's the first thing, that's a red flag. A lot of times these scamswork more on the fact that you get to know the person on the phone or over theinternet, maybe

you met them through a dating site, you have actually never metthem personally. They befriend you, they invest a lot of time in talking toyou, maybe sending you flowers, having a

relationship with you online or overthe phone, and then it gets to, well I see you're not feeling very well today.No, I'm, I've had to go down to the doctor and I have to have this

operation, butthe operation costs $5,000 or I need to get to have the operation, and I don'thave that kind of money. And then they almost get you to be the one who says,well you know, I

could help you with that. I could give you the money andthey're not even asking you for the money. They turn it around so that you'reoffering the money to them. Again, you know, a lot of

times it's like when Ispeak to a younger woman, and she says to me, "I've been dating this guyfor six months, but I'm, you know, I don't, I don't, I'm a little suspiciousabout this guy." I

say, "Well let me ask you this, have you ever beento his house?" "Uh, no." "Have you ever been able to callhim at home or only on his cell phone?" "I only have his cell phone,I don't have

his home number." Then you should be suspicious. And italways turns out eventually that probably the guy's married. Maybe he's nottrying to rip her off for any money, but he's deceiving her

because he'smarried and he's trying to have an affair with somebody and not let them knowthat they're married.

[00:13:40] HOST: Butlove is so hard, Frank. I mean you find somebody who's paying attention to you,you kind of see all of a sudden, they're getting lavished with whatever it maybe, oh, I

love your picture and I really want to meet you. I mean...

[00:13:51] FrankAbagnale: And I'm fine with that up to the point to when they say send me somemoney.

[00:13:55] HOST: Don'tsend them money.

[00:13:51] FrankAbagnale: Okay? That's when I, then I have to stop, no matter how much I'minvolved with the person or taken over by the person's sweetness and whatthey've done for me. The

minute they start asking you for money, then thatraises a red flag that I have to say, who is this really? Do I really know whothis is because I actually have never met them, I don't really

know a whole lotabout them, so before I invest money, it would be like you investing money insomething, before I invest in it, I'm going to check it out to make sure thatit's real. It's the

same way here. Before I invest money in this individual, Ineed to make sure I know who this individual is.

[00:14:30] HOST: Sohave a cup of coffee first before, together before you start sending money forthe mines in another part of the world.

[00:14:36] FrankAbagnale: Absolutely.

[00:14:37] HOST: Theother thing and you mentioned this a little bit about the amount of time theyput in, but these romance scams, I mean sometimes that can be like a reallylong drawn out

romance, where people stay with somebody, but they must havemultiple ones.

[00:14:48] FrankAbagnale: And that's it, you know, it's like all scams where people say, well Ican't believe the time they invested in, with this, to just get this money outof me, and I

explain to them you're one of 100.

[00:14:57] HOST: Itwasn't the only game.

[00:14:57] FrankAbagnale: They just move on. When they hang up from you, they move onto thenext one. They're working constant scams, and each one is coming in paying outas they go back, so

they're not just sitting home doing one call and theninvesting all this time in one call. They, they've got multiple calls going onand they're each at a certain point to where they're going

to move to the nextposition to where in the end they end up getting the money from everybody. We'veeven had them where if I don't get the money, someone's going to kill mebecause I owe these

people this money and they're, they're not very nicepeople.

[00:15:26] HOST: You doget that.

[00:15:27] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, you hit those scams where, you know...

[00:15:30] HOST: Assoon as you hear that, cut bait and run.

[00:15:32] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, I mean, again, I, if I was the best advice I'd have is say youknow listen, carry on the romance if you want, but if you've never met theperson, you really

don't know who they are, the moment they come along and say,give me some money, you need to stop and ask, do I really know who this personis?

[00:15:51] HOST: Backin your previous life, women came and went through various elements of what, ofwhat you did. We know about the flight attendants and how they were, how youput that into

play in order to cash checks again most of the time, you weren'tscamming them directly. Was romance a scam for you ever, or did you haveexperience of you know tugging at heartstrings?

[00:16:11] FrankAbagnale: I think, you know, I, for me, it was so unusual because here I was a16, 17-year-old, dating girls 25 and 27 because they assumed I was a pilot orthe doctor or the

lawyer, so I was pretending to be this person 10 years olderthan I was, so...

[00:16:26] HOST: Yourconfidence level must have been amazing.

[00:16:28] FrankAbagnale: Yes, and but all the, all the girls that I went out with were mucholder than me, so people always used to say to me, well did you ever get reallyinvolved with one?

And I said, no, because my mother would never approve of megetting married. I was too, I was too young, and so I was conscious of nevergiving a lot of this, I love you, and you know, I

bought them nice things, butit was always, I tried to keep the relationship casual because I knew that Iwas so much younger than them and the relationship...

[00:16:53] HOST: Andwasn't it all brand new? This, even if you did like somebody?

[00:16:56] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, and I'll tell you, I'll tell you a quick story that's actuallyin, in the book, Catch Me If You Can.

[00:17:01] HOST: Welove stories.

[00:17:02] FrankAbagnale: I, I had met a girl who was a flight attendant with AmericanAirlines, and she was probably about 10 years older than me. She thought I washer age. I dated her for a

while and she got very attached to me, and she askedme if I would come home to California to meet her family over the weekend. Iwas reluctant to do it, but I, I went there and met her

family and...

[00:17:25] HOST: As apilot.

[00:16:57] FrankAbagnale: As the pilot and she thought me to believe that I was a pilot and,and I started to realize over that weekend that this person was getting realserious about me, and

this is not a good thing because I, by meeting herparents, I think she was interested in maybe getting married and, you know,that's not going to happen. So we went on a bicycle ride in her

neighborhood,and we got to a park, and I had never confided in anybody about who I reallywas. So sitting under a tree, I said, "I need to tell you something, I'monly telling you this cause I

care about you," and I said, "I don'twant to hurt you," but I said, "The truth is, I'm not a pilot. Andactually I'm only 18 years old. I'm running from the police because I ran awayfrom

home and I've written a bunch of bad checks." First, she thought Iwas kidding because she said, "I met you on the flight. You were sittingin the cockpit in the jump seat." I said, "Yeah, I

ride around onthese planes, you know in the jump seat," but I said...

[00:18:16] HOST:Deadheading.

[00:18:17] FrankAbagnale: This is the truth. So she got very upset and then she said,"Well let's go back to my house." And I said, “You know what, whydon't you go back, I'm going to sit here

for a while, I'll, I'll be back thereshortly." So she left on the bike and a few minutes later I got on thebike, but I went one street past her street, went down the back, so that Icould

look for her yard from the back and all these police cars were out there.Now, I thought there you go. People only like you for who they think you are;I'm not the pilot, she turned me in. So,

I'm never ever going to tell anybodyagain who I really am, you can't really trust anybody. Now that's the thinkingof an adolescent 18-year-old. Later on in life, who I've met this girl

sincethen, I met her brother since then years later, she obviously was an adult whowent back and said, this is a kid, the police are looking for him, he's arunaway, you know, somebody needs

to do something before somebody gets hurt orthe kid gets hurt, and so she did the right thing. But in the eyes of anadolescent, I looked at it like see, you can't be honest with anybody,

they'rejust going to, they're going to just turn you in, so I'm going to never tellanybody again the truth, and I didn't.

[00:19:25] HOST: Youlearned like the wrong lesson.

[00:19:26] FrankAbagnale: Yes, the wrong lesson.

[00:19:28] HOST: Andhow different your life might have been had you actually gotten caught earlier?

[00:19:31] FrankAbagnale: That's right.

[00:19:32] HOST: And Imean, the thing that keeps coming back to me in your story, too, is that you,you did have this, this life of crime, but it has turned into what you dotoday.

[00:19:41] FrankAbagnale: Right.

[00:19:42] HOST: And somaybe things had turned out differently you wouldn't have had thisincredible...

[00:19:46] FrankAbagnale: I am a big believer...

[00:19:47] HOST: Bethankful.

[00:19:47] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, I am a big believer that things happen in life for a reason.You know, so I, I look at that as that's something that happened in my life andI was able to turn

what was a very negative thing into a very positive thing,and I think that says a lot about, we live in such a great country that nomatter what you do, whether you're an alcoholic, you have

a drug problem, nomatter what it is, you can change your life. Because we live in a great countrywhere people give you the opportunity to get a second, third, sometimes fourthchance to turn

your life around. So, when I look at age 69, I look back on mylife, I'm not fascinated by the things I did between 16 and 21 as most peopleare, I am absolutely truly amazed every day of my

life that I did those things,I went to prison, paid my debt, and where my life ended up. I've been marriedto my one and only wife for 40 plus years. I've brought three sons into theworld,

the one who is an FBI agent. I mean how amazing it is for me to have ason become an FBI agent.

[00:20:47] HOST: Forpeople who didn't know that, yes.

[00:20:49] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, those, those are the things that every day I have to wake upand say, I get to work for a great organization like AARP. My clients likeLexus Nexus, Experian,

working with the FBI. Who would have ever believed thatwas possible if you had said to me sitting in that jail today, one day you'llbe doing this? You know, and so it says a lot about our

country. It also says alot about that the world does not judge you on what your father's mistakes wereor someone else's mistakes, so they judge my son only on my son, not on me.

[00:21:22] HOST: Well,from dating scams to getting second chances in life, your story is amazing.We're lucky to have you on the show.

[00:21:29] FrankAbagnale: Glad to be here.

[00:21:30] HOST: Onemore thing about her story we'll go back to is that, and it was an interestingelement. It was at the store where she was getting money actually said don'tsend any more

money. Do you hear about this sometimes?

[00:21:38] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, you know, years ago, going back now 35 years ago, when I usedto work with banks, it was mainly me training bank tellers. Now mostly it'stalking to their

corporate customers, but years ago I used to tell tellers,"If I come in and tell you that I need to withdraw $5,000 cash, and I'm anelderly person, you need to question that person, and say,

'Look, I don't wantto get personal, but did anyone approach you and tell you this?'" It usedto be a very popular scam back 35 years ago where they would see an elderlyperson go into a bank

or a savings bank and they would then follow that personhome, and a few minutes later there would be a knock on their door and two nicegentlemen dressed in a suit would identify themselves

as secret service agents.And they'd say, "We need your help." And then they'd come in, they'dsit down, and they'd say, "We believe that one of the tellers at your bankis stealing money, and

we need to catch her, and we need your help. So we wouldlike you to go to the bank and withdraw $5,000 in cash and then bring it backto the apartment."

[00:22:38] HOST: Getout, that's crazy.

[00:22:39] FrankAbagnale: "We're going to mark the money, and then we're going to give youthe money back so that you can bring it back and put it in the bank, so we cancatch the teller

red-handed." You don't know how many thousands of peoplefell for that scam, so you would say to the teller, if somebody came in, youjust said I don't want to get nosy, so I think more and

more today, certainlyAARP is working with banks and financial institutions to let them know aboutthese scams so that they can step forward and say, are you sure nobodyapproached you, because

then the lightbulb goes on and the person's going tosay, oh yeah, that's exactly what happened. Well then that's a scam. They'rejust trying to get your money. So Walmart obviously is

training their peoplevery well because, and I think that's great.

[00:23:19] HOST: Datingsites. I mean anybody can get on a dating site and put themselves in howeverthey want to, right? There's not, is there a lot of verification going on?

[00:23:26] FrankAbagnale: I think if I was, if I was someone who wanted to go through a datingsite, I would absolutely make sure that was a very legitimate dating site,where the dating site,

that company checks the people out who actually want tobe on their site. They verify that they're a real person, that's their realname, they do currently live at this address, they are

currently employed atthis place, so that at least you have the security that they've done somebackground checks so that the person they're hooking you up with at leastsomeone has established

who they am. If they're not doing that, I wouldn't bedoing business with that dating site.

[00:23:57] HOST: Sodon't go onto dating sites that specialize in guys who work in mines in otherparts of the world, and need your money.

[00:24:03] FrankAbagnale: Go on dating sites where someone has them verified who they'reputting you in touch with.

[00:24:07] HOST:Absolutely. Alright, Frank Abagnale, thank you once again for being here,taking about dating and romance scams, and you know, one thing we didn't talkabout was trusting

photos online. Anybody can go to a dating site and put aphoto of somebody, right, that's not them.

[00:24:19] FrankAbagnale: Photos are everywhere, like on LinkedIn or Facebook or social mediasites and people can take those photos because that's a digital image of you,put it on a

passport, put it on an identification, or on a dating site andsaying I'm this person, and it'd be very impressive to the person who thinksthey're dating that individual. There are a lot of

photos that are used andmanipulated, that's why I always tell people that are on Facebook and socialmedia, don't put straight on photographs of yourself that are easily taken andthen

transferred somewhere, somewhere else.

[00:24:52] HOST: Gotit, okay, that's good to know and if it looks like somebody in really goodlighting in an office setting, don't trust that one either, because it's probablya stock photo.

[00:25:00] FrankAbagnale: Exactly.

[00:25:02] HOST: Andalso, along the lines of photos and the technology of it, are we able then alsoto reverse that equation in that we can take images and search online, or isthat kind of a

black hole.

[00:25:12] FrankAbagnale: No, there are two technologies out there now. One is calledPitt-Patt. That was actually developed by MIT but it is owned by Google, and itis a facial recognition

tool tied back to Facebook, so if you have your pictureon Facebook, and I snap a photo of you, it'll search all the Facebook pagesaround the world till it comes up to a match of that person

on Facebook. TheRussians have even a better, faster technology called Fine Face, and it isavailable in the U.S.

[00:25:42] HOST: Theseare the good guys using this technology or the bad guys?

[00:25:19] FrankAbagnale: It's both, so a lot of bad guys use it basically because if I see youin the airport and I snap a photograph of you, and it takes me to your Facebookpage, and on

your Facebook page you happen to tell me where you were born andyour date of birth, I'm 98 percent of stealing your identity.

[00:26:00] HOST: Wow.

[00:25:19] FrankAbagnale: Yeah, it is amazing.

[00:26:02] HOST: Wow,that's scary.

[00:26:05] HOST: Inkeeping with our topic today of romance scams, we have Jen Beam from the FraudWatch Network. She manages the Fraud Watch Network Facebook page. Jen, thanksfor being here.

[00:26:14] Jen Beam: Thanksfor having me.

[00:26:15] HOST:Alright, so romance scams. You guys hear about them a lot on the, with yourFacebook community, right? Can you tell us about it?

[00:26:21] Jen Beam: Wedo. What we hear most is sort of two different things. So often, we will getfolks who reach out, sort of just before, so potential scammers will reach themand they'll

send us, you know, hey, does this person look legit, you know, andthey'll send us a Facebook profile and we can you know, usually it's prettyclear it's a scam. The other which is more common

is that we hear from friendsand family reaching out who are just absolutely at their wit's end trying toreach someone who has been victimized. One of the hardest exchanges that I'vegotten

is a really close friend; her best friend had fallen for this scammer,it was the classic story, you know, she met this guy on a dating sight, theyquickly switched to text, it was a guy who

happened to be across the country,he traveled a lot, and it really hit all the markers of the classic romancescam, but this friend followed the warning signs, could not break through, andso

you know we were in the position trying to advise this woman, you know, whatshe could share with her you know the friend that was being victimized, andultimately we were able to connect her

with our Fraud Watch Network Helpline.And so, what's nice about that is we have trained volunteers who actually makeoutgoing calls too, so they were able to call just to try to be an

outsidesource because sometimes you know people don't want to hear it from theirfriends and family.

[00:27:48] HOST: So, nomatter how much you might like somebody from their photo, or their messages, ortheir texts, you know, as Frank said, if you’re not going to have coffee withsomebody,

then don't send them money. Like, you know, if you haven't done thatyet, you know there's no reason to share money with them.

[00:28:04] Jen Beam:It's a very good point.

[00:27:59] HOST: JenBeam with the Fraud Watch Network. Thanks, as always, for your valuable advice.Where can people find the Facebook page?

[00:28:12] Jen Beam:They can find it at Facebook.com/fraudwatchnetwork.

[00:28:15] HOST:Alright, Jen, thanks a lot.

[00:28:16] Jen Beam: Thanks,Will.

[00:28:18] HOST:Alright, stay safe out there. Don't click on any links you don't know. Don'tpick up that phone if you don't know the phone number, and I'll be back nextwith AARP's Fraud

Watch Network. Ambassador Frank Abagnale.

[00:28:29] FrankAbagnale: Thank you.

[00:28:30] HOST: Thanksa lot.

[00:28:27] HOST: Formore information and resources on how to protect yourself from becoming a victimof a scam, visit AARP's Fraud Watch Network website,AARP.org/fraudwatchnetwork.

[00:28:41] HOST:Alright, many thanks to our producers Julie Getz and Brook Ellis; our audioengineer, Julio Gonzales, and of course, my cohost Frank Abagnale. For The PerfectScam, I'm Will

Johnson. Be sure to subscribe, download, rate, and of course,please like our podcast on Apple Podcast or wherever you find your favoritepodcasts.

END OF TRANSCRIPT

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Episode 11: Dan Goldstein - A Scammer Tells All

We pull back the curtain on call centers and learn about the rise and fall of one call center employee who scammed victims daily.

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